[Frameworks] Linear film editing

[Mary Stark]

Dear Frameworks Friends.

I'm interested in 'linear film editing', as in cutting and splicing film at
an edit bench or Steenbeck or however you do it. I'd like to know more
about artist filmmakers who continue to edit film physically whilst also
living in this digital era!

I've attached a questionnaire for folks to fill in if you would be so kind.
Email responses to ***@hotmail.co.uk

Warmest wishes,

Mary

[Dave Tetzlaff]

I'm interested in 'linear film editing', as in cutting and splicing film at an edit bench or Steenbeck or however you do it.

That’s not linear editing. Physical film editing is non-linear, which means you can edit anywhere in the piece you want by winding the reels to that spot. Linear editing was how editing in VIDEO was performed pre-computerization. That is, you had to add each shot sequentially from beginning to to end, in that order, and once you got to, say, shot 5, you couldn’t go back and trim the cut between 1 and 2 without starting over.

Needless to say, linear editing is a pain in the ass, and anyone who had ever editied film found it extremely frustrating and limitiing. Thus non-linear video editing was invented by commercial filmmakers after video became integrated into feature film produstion via special effects and ‘workprinting’. For example, one of the earliest experimental systems, the Editdroid, was built by Lucasfilm in the early ‘80s. In fact, before the term ‘non-linear editing’ came into common use in the 1990s, these systems were called ‘electronic film editing’, because they gave editors working with video footage the same flexibility that physical film editing had always offered.

You have checked your definitions before creating your survey…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-linear_editing_system#History

[Colinet André]

I don’t agree with Dave.
Linear editing means physical linear structuring of film or video footage.
Non linear editing means virtual editing of footage because it’s only a editing list with software.
All the best !!
Colinet André



Verzonden vanuit Mail voor Windows 10

Van: Dave Tetzlaff
Verzonden: donderdag 29 november 2018 22:50
Aan: Experimental Film Discussion List
Onderwerp: Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

I'm interested in 'linear film editing', as in cutting and splicing film at an edit bench or Steenbeck or however you do it.

That’s not linear editing. Physical film editing is non-linear, which means you can edit anywhere in the piece you want by winding the reels to that spot. Linear editing was how editing in VIDEO was performed pre-computerization. That is, you had to add each shot sequentially from beginning to to end, in that order, and once you got to, say, shot 5, you couldn’t go back and trim the cut between 1 and 2 without starting over.

Needless to say, linear editing is a pain in the ass, and anyone who had ever editied film found it extremely frustrating and limitiing. Thus non-linear video editing was invented by commercial filmmakers after video became integrated into feature film produstion via special effects and ‘workprinting’. For example, one of the earliest experimental systems, the Editdroid, was built by Lucasfilm in the early ‘80s. In fact, before the term ‘non-linear editing’ came into common use in the 1990s, these systems were called ‘electronic film editing’, because they gave editors working with video footage the same flexibility that physical film editing had always offered.

You have checked your definitions before creating your survey


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-linear_editing_system#History

[Adam Hyman]

Hi,

I learned in film school during the transition period that what Dave says
is correct
Editing with celluloid is non-linear; early video editing was linear due to
the assembly reason that Dave describes; non-linear digital editing was a
return to the non-linear editing of celluloid.
We could have a poll though.

Best,

Adam

From: FrameWorks <frameworks-***@jonasmekasfilms.com> on behalf of
Colinet André <***@coditel.net>
Reply-To: "Experimental Film Discussion List
<***@jonasmekasfilms.com>" <***@jonasmekasfilms.com>
Date: Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 4:44 PM
To: "Experimental Film Discussion List <***@jonasmekasfilms.com>"
<***@jonasmekasfilms.com>
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

I don¹t agree with Dave.
Linear editing means physical linear structuring of film or video footage.
Non linear editing means virtual editing of footage because it¹s only a
editing list with software.
All the best !!
Colinet André



Verzonden vanuit Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> voor
Windows 10


Van: Dave Tetzlaff <mailto:***@gmail.com>
Verzonden: donderdag 29 november 2018 22:50
Aan: Experimental Film Discussion List
<mailto:***@jonasmekasfilms.com>
Onderwerp: Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

I'm interested in 'linear film editing', as in cutting and splicing film at an

edit bench or Steenbeck or however you do it.

That¹s not linear editing. Physical film editing is non-linear, which means
you can edit anywhere in the piece you want by winding the reels to that
spot. Linear editing was how editing in VIDEO was performed
pre-computerization. That is, you had to add each shot sequentially from
beginning to to end, in that order, and once you got to, say, shot 5, you
couldn¹t go back and trim the cut between 1 and 2 without starting over.

Needless to say, linear editing is a pain in the ass, and anyone who had
ever editied film found it extremely frustrating and limitiing. Thus
non-linear video editing was invented by commercial filmmakers after video
became integrated into feature film produstion via special effects and
Œworkprinting¹. For example, one of the earliest experimental systems, the
Editdroid, was built by Lucasfilm in the early Œ80s. In fact, before the
term Œnon-linear editing¹ came into common use in the 1990s, these systems
were called Œelectronic film editing¹, because they gave editors working
with video footage the same flexibility that physical film editing had
always offered.

You have checked your definitions before creating your surveyŠ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-linear_editing_system#History
_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
***@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

_______________________________________________ FrameWorks mailing list
***@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

[Colinet André]

Hello,
of course you are right with this approach.
I’m talking about another definition of “non-linear” which is also correct.
Anyhow I made a lot of linear analogue video editing and every time you had to copy to start a new version until the quality was so bad you had to go back to the originals with the timecodes.

Verzonden vanuit Mail voor Windows 10

Van: Adam Hyman
Verzonden: vrijdag 30 november 2018 2:04
Aan: Experimental Film Discussion List <***@jonasmekasfilms.com>
Onderwerp: Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

Hi,

 I learned in film school during the transition period that what Dave says is correct
Editing with celluloid is non-linear; early video editing was linear due to the assembly reason that Dave describes; non-linear digital editing was a return to the non-linear editing of celluloid.
We could have a poll though.

Best,

Adam

From: FrameWorks <frameworks-***@jonasmekasfilms.com> on behalf of Colinet André <***@coditel.net>
Reply-To: "Experimental Film Discussion List <***@jonasmekasfilms.com>" <***@jonasmekasfilms.com>
Date: Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 4:44 PM
To: "Experimental Film Discussion List <***@jonasmekasfilms.com>" <***@jonasmekasfilms.com>
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

I don’t agree with Dave.
Linear editing means physical linear structuring of film or video footage.
Non linear editing means virtual editing of footage because it’s only a editing list with software.
All the best !!
Colinet André
 
 
 
Verzonden vanuit Mail voor Windows 10
 
Van: Dave Tetzlaff
Verzonden: donderdag 29 november 2018 22:50
Aan: Experimental Film Discussion List
Onderwerp: Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing
 

I'm interested in 'linear film editing', as in cutting and splicing film at an edit bench or Steenbeck or however you do it.

 
That’s not linear editing. Physical film editing is non-linear, which means you can edit anywhere in the piece you want by winding the reels to that spot. Linear editing was how editing in VIDEO was performed pre-computerization. That is, you had to add each shot sequentially from beginning to to end, in that order, and once you got to, say, shot 5, you couldn’t go back and trim the cut between 1 and 2 without starting over.
 
Needless to say, linear editing is a pain in the ass, and anyone who had ever editied film found it extremely frustrating and limitiing. Thus non-linear video editing was invented by commercial filmmakers after video became integrated into feature film produstion via special effects and ‘workprinting’. For example, one of the earliest experimental systems, the Editdroid, was built by Lucasfilm in the early ‘80s. In fact, before the term ‘non-linear editing’ came into common use in the 1990s, these systems were called ‘electronic film editing’, because they gave editors working with video footage the same flexibility that physical film editing had always offered.
 
You have checked your definitions before creating your survey

 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-linear_editing_system#History
_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
***@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
 
_______________________________________________ FrameWorks mailing list ***@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

[Christopher Ball]

I remember doing sound mixing with 4 U-matic machines, running them all
together until they drifted out of sync while mixing audio. I also editing
running 2 U-matics together and punching in on the record machine when I
wanted the cut to happen. What a difference now. Mind you, film editing
was not hard and puts you in a much better headspace than computer editing.

Christopher

Post by Colinet André
Hello,
of course you are right with this approach.
I’m talking about another definition of “non-linear” which is also
correct.
Anyhow I made a lot of linear analogue video editing and every time you
had to copy to start a new version until the quality was so bad you had to
go back to the originals with the timecodes.
Verzonden vanuit Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
voor Windows 10
*Verzonden: *vrijdag 30 november 2018 2:04
*Onderwerp: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing
Hi,
I learned in film school during the transition period that what Dave says
is correct
Editing with celluloid is non-linear; early video editing was linear due
to the assembly reason that Dave describes; non-linear digital editing was
a return to the non-linear editing of celluloid.
We could have a poll though.
Best,
Adam
*Reply-To: *"Experimental Film Discussion List <
*Date: *Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 4:44 PM
*Subject: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing
*I don’t agree with Dave.*
*Linear editing means physical linear structuring of film or video
footage.*
*Non linear editing means virtual editing of footage because it’s only a
editing list with software.*
*All the best !!*
*Colinet André*
Verzonden vanuit Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
voor Windows 10
*Verzonden: *donderdag 29 november 2018 22:50
*Onderwerp: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

Post by Mary Stark
I'm interested in 'linear film editing', as in cutting and splicing film

at an edit bench or Steenbeck or however you do it.
That’s not linear editing. Physical film editing is non-linear, which
means you can edit anywhere in the piece you want by winding the reels to
that spot. Linear editing was how editing in VIDEO was performed
pre-computerization. That is, you had to add each shot sequentially from
beginning to to end, in that order, and once you got to, say, shot 5, you
couldn’t go back and trim the cut between 1 and 2 without starting over.
Needless to say, linear editing is a pain in the ass, and anyone who had
ever editied film found it extremely frustrating and limitiing. Thus
non-linear video editing was invented by commercial filmmakers after video
became integrated into feature film produstion via special effects and
‘workprinting’. For example, one of the earliest experimental systems, the
Editdroid, was built by Lucasfilm in the early ‘80s. In fact, before the
term ‘non-linear editing’ came into common use in the 1990s, these systems
were called ‘electronic film editing’, because they gave editors working
with video footage the same flexibility that physical film editing had
always offered.
You have checked your definitions before creating your survey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-linear_editing_system#History
_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
_______________________________________________ FrameWorks mailing list
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
_______________________________________________
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[m***@gmail.com]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for your feedback. It has been very helpful! I stand corrected. I somewhat thoughtlessly rushed into sending out the survey without checking definitions, as what I meant to find out about is about people editing film in a physical non-computerised way, not video tape, just photochemical film in any format.

I’d be interested to know how this discussion list would think this would be best described. I think it is better to leave the linear out of it and just term it as ‘editing photochemical film’?

Just to add that I am in the final year of a practice as research PhD investigating historical relationships between filmmaking and textile practice, testing through performance the hypothesis that film can be compared to fabric and editing to stitching. I will submit a performance and a written thesis so the survey will be help with the literature and practice review, as I’m interested to know about artists who continue to edit film physically, what their process is and ideas about why they do it.

All best,

Mary

I remember doing sound mixing with 4 U-matic machines, running them all together until they drifted out of sync while mixing audio. I also editing running 2 U-matics together and punching in on the record machine when I wanted the cut to happen. What a difference now. Mind you, film editing was not hard and puts you in a much better headspace than computer editing.
Christopher
Hello,
of course you are right with this approach.
I’m talking about another definition of “non-linear” which is also correct.
Anyhow I made a lot of linear analogue video editing and every time you had to copy to start a new version until the quality was so bad you had to go back to the originals with the timecodes.
Verzonden vanuit Mail voor Windows 10
Van: Adam Hyman
Verzonden: vrijdag 30 november 2018 2:04
Onderwerp: Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing
Hi,
I learned in film school during the transition period that what Dave says is correct
Editing with celluloid is non-linear; early video editing was linear due to the assembly reason that Dave describes; non-linear digital editing was a return to the non-linear editing of celluloid.
We could have a poll though.
Best,
Adam
Date: Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing
I don’t agree with Dave.
Linear editing means physical linear structuring of film or video footage.
Non linear editing means virtual editing of footage because it’s only a editing list with software.
All the best !!
Colinet André
Verzonden vanuit Mail voor Windows 10
Van: Dave Tetzlaff
Verzonden: donderdag 29 november 2018 22:50
Aan: Experimental Film Discussion List
Onderwerp: Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

I'm interested in 'linear film editing', as in cutting and splicing film at an edit bench or Steenbeck or however you do it.

That’s not linear editing. Physical film editing is non-linear, which means you can edit anywhere in the piece you want by winding the reels to that spot. Linear editing was how editing in VIDEO was performed pre-computerization. That is, you had to add each shot sequentially from beginning to to end, in that order, and once you got to, say, shot 5, you couldn’t go back and trim the cut between 1 and 2 without starting over.
Needless to say, linear editing is a pain in the ass, and anyone who had ever editied film found it extremely frustrating and limitiing. Thus non-linear video editing was invented by commercial filmmakers after video became integrated into feature film produstion via special effects and ‘workprinting’. For example, one of the earliest experimental systems, the Editdroid, was built by Lucasfilm in the early ‘80s. In fact, before the term ‘non-linear editing’ came into common use in the 1990s, these systems were called ‘electronic film editing’, because they gave editors working with video footage the same flexibility that physical film editing had always offered.
You have checked your definitions before creating your survey…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-linear_editing_system#History
_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

[Fred Camper]

i was glad to hear of your interesting topic. I trust /The Man With the
Movie Camera/ is included?

Fred Camper

Chicago

Post by m***@gmail.com
Hello everyone,
Thanks for your feedback. It has been very helpful!  I stand
corrected. I somewhat thoughtlessly rushed into sending out the survey
without checking definitions, as what I meant to find out about is
about people editing film in a physical non-computerised way, not
video tape, just photochemical film in any format.
I’d be interested to know how this discussion list would think this
would be best described.  I think it is better to leave the linear out
of it and just term it as ‘editing photochemical film’?
Just to add that I am in the final year of a practice as research PhD
investigating historical relationships between filmmaking and textile
practice, testing through performance the hypothesis that film can be
compared to fabric and editing to stitching. I will submit a
performance and a written thesis so the survey will be help with the
literature and practice review, as I’m interested to know about
artists who continue to edit film physically, what their process is
and ideas about why they do it.
All best,
Mary

Post by Christopher Ball
I remember doing sound mixing with 4 U-matic machines, running them
all together until they drifted out of sync while mixing audio.  I
also editing running 2 U-matics together and punching in on the
record machine when I wanted the cut to happen.  What a difference
now. Mind you, film editing was not hard and puts you in a much
better headspace than computer editing.
Christopher
On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 9:34 PM Colinet André
Hello,
of course you are right with this approach.
I’m talking about another definition of “non-linear” which is also correct.
Anyhow I made a lot of linear analogue video editing and every
time you had to copy to start a new version until the quality was
so bad you had to go back to the originals with the timecodes.
Verzonden vanuit Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> voor Windows 10
*Verzonden: *vrijdag 30 november 2018 2:04
*Aan: *Experimental Film Discussion List
*Onderwerp: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing
Hi,
 I learned in film school during the transition period that what
Dave says is correct
Editing with celluloid is non-linear; early video editing was
linear due to the assembly reason that Dave describes; non-linear
digital editing was a return to the non-linear editing of celluloid.
We could have a poll though.
Best,
Adam
*Reply-To: *"Experimental Film Discussion List
*Date: *Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 4:44 PM
*To: *"Experimental Film Discussion List
*Subject: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing
*I don’t agree with Dave.*
*Linear editing means physical linear structuring of film or
video footage.*
*Non linear editing means virtual editing of footage because it’s
only a editing list with software.*
*All the best !!*
*Colinet André*
Verzonden vanuit Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> voor Windows 10
*Verzonden: *donderdag 29 november 2018 22:50
*Aan: *Experimental Film Discussion List
*Onderwerp: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

Post by Mary Stark
I'm interested in 'linear film editing', as in cutting and splicing

film at an edit bench or Steenbeck or however you do it.
That’s not linear editing. Physical film editing is non-linear,
which means you can edit anywhere in the piece you want by
winding the reels to that spot. Linear editing was how editing in
VIDEO was performed pre-computerization. That is, you had to add
each shot sequentially from beginning to to end, in that order,
and once you got to, say, shot 5, you couldn’t go back and trim
the cut between 1 and 2 without starting over.
Needless to say, linear editing is a pain in the ass, and anyone
who had ever editied film found it extremely frustrating and
limitiing. Thus non-linear video editing was invented by
commercial filmmakers after video became integrated into feature
film produstion via special effects and ‘workprinting’. For
example, one of the earliest experimental systems, the Editdroid,
was built by Lucasfilm in the early ‘80s. In fact, before the
term ‘non-linear editing’ came into common use in the 1990s,
these systems were called ‘electronic film editing’, because they
gave editors working with video footage the same flexibility that
physical film editing had always offered.
You have checked your definitions before creating your survey…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-linear_editing_system#History
_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
_______________________________________________ FrameWorks
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
_______________________________________________
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https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

_______________________________________________
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[Ben Winston]

Hey I'm Ben. I'm 26 years old and am based in Atlanta GA. I'm originally
from San Francisco where I did a lot of film editing on a KEM flatbed. I
have some links to my work below if you are interested. There is a lot to
the process to explain over email but I can try to help the best I can.
Film editing is a blast, especially when youre throwing sound in the mix.
Two tools you need are a grease pencil and a sharpie for the soundtrack.
Grease pencils dont show up well on Mag stock. Basically you will be
marking up your film a lot to make cuts and to sync it up with the sound if
you are doing that.

What I like to to is go through all the footage and cut every shot out and
hang it on the bin you are using with its Mag sound counterpart if you are
using sync sound recorded on set or whatever. If you are using a slate
while shooting, that is where your first sync mark will go when the clap
board claps. I usually mark that with an X on the film and sound and write
the shot number on the sound only because the shot number should be on your
slate on the work print. Then I usually put another sync mark in the middle
of the shot somewhere with an O or dot because the slate will eventually be
cut out and you will loose your sync mark. I also put lines in to
generally mark where the cuts will be just to get an idea of where I'm
gonna cut the shot. The sound will always be cut to overlap the shot before
and after so you can fade them in and out while mixing later on. You should
have 2 sound tracks and every other shot will be on a different track so
the sound can seamlessly fade into one another. It gets tricky and I can go
on forever but thats just the beginning. Theres whole books on the subject
which you should definitely look up.

To me film editing is important because I just love to do it. I love to
physically touch the film and it makes you think more about the cuts you
make before you make em. It feels more like making a real movie to me.
Computer editing to me kinda cheapens the whole experience of film making
although I've been forced to lately because I dont have access to any of
that equipment here in Georgia. One day though I will. Also if you get into
optical printing, That shits a blast too. Thats for special FX like
superimposed titles and transitions and a lot lot more.

When I was doing all this, it was at a college. It took up a ton of space.
KEM flatbeds are huge, the Mag dubber is huge and I had about 50 film boxes
all over the floor. I took up a big part of the lab which used to annoy the
techs but I was the only person using the shit anyway so it didnt matter.

I still only shoot 16mm film and I just recently finished my 1st feature
which I unfortunately had to edit on my computer. The film still came out
pretty good though for the budget and resources I had. Eventually I'd like
to own all my own film editing tools and make independent films for the
rest of my life. Anyway, If you have any more questions, let me know.
Here's my dang youtube page.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SketchyWinston/videos


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i was glad to hear of your interesting topic. I trust *The Man With the
Movie Camera* is included?
Fred Camper
Chicago
Hello everyone,
Thanks for your feedback. It has been very helpful! I stand corrected. I
somewhat thoughtlessly rushed into sending out the survey without checking
definitions, as what I meant to find out about is about people editing film
in a physical non-computerised way, not video tape, just photochemical film
in any format.
I’d be interested to know how this discussion list would think this would
be best described. I think it is better to leave the linear out of it and
just term it as ‘editing photochemical film’?
Just to add that I am in the final year of a practice as research PhD
investigating historical relationships between filmmaking and textile
practice, testing through performance the hypothesis that film can be
compared to fabric and editing to stitching. I will submit a performance
and a written thesis so the survey will be help with the literature and
practice review, as I’m interested to know about artists who continue to
edit film physically, what their process is and ideas about why they do it.
All best,
Mary
I remember doing sound mixing with 4 U-matic machines, running them all
together until they drifted out of sync while mixing audio. I also editing
running 2 U-matics together and punching in on the record machine when I
wanted the cut to happen. What a difference now. Mind you, film editing
was not hard and puts you in a much better headspace than computer editing.
Christopher

Post by Colinet André
Hello,
of course you are right with this approach.
I’m talking about another definition of “non-linear” which is also
correct.
Anyhow I made a lot of linear analogue video editing and every time you
had to copy to start a new version until the quality was so bad you had to
go back to the originals with the timecodes.
Verzonden vanuit Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
voor Windows 10
*Verzonden: *vrijdag 30 november 2018 2:04
*Onderwerp: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing
Hi,
I learned in film school during the transition period that what Dave says is correct
Editing with celluloid is non-linear; early video editing was linear due
to the assembly reason that Dave describes; non-linear digital editing was
a return to the non-linear editing of celluloid.
We could have a poll though.
Best,
Adam
*Reply-To: *"Experimental Film Discussion List <
*Date: *Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 4:44 PM
*Subject: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing
*I don’t agree with Dave.*
*Linear editing means physical linear structuring of film or video
footage.*
*Non linear editing means virtual editing of footage because it’s only a
editing list with software.*
*All the best !!*
*Colinet André*
Verzonden vanuit Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
voor Windows 10
*Verzonden: *donderdag 29 november 2018 22:50
*Onderwerp: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

Post by Mary Stark
I'm interested in 'linear film editing', as in cutting and splicing

film at an edit bench or Steenbeck or however you do it.
That’s not linear editing. Physical film editing is non-linear, which
means you can edit anywhere in the piece you want by winding the reels to
that spot. Linear editing was how editing in VIDEO was performed
pre-computerization. That is, you had to add each shot sequentially from
beginning to to end, in that order, and once you got to, say, shot 5, you
couldn’t go back and trim the cut between 1 and 2 without starting over.
Needless to say, linear editing is a pain in the ass, and anyone who had
ever editied film found it extremely frustrating and limitiing. Thus
non-linear video editing was invented by commercial filmmakers after video
became integrated into feature film produstion via special effects and
‘workprinting’. For example, one of the earliest experimental systems, the
Editdroid, was built by Lucasfilm in the early ‘80s. In fact, before the
term ‘non-linear editing’ came into common use in the 1990s, these systems
were called ‘electronic film editing’, because they gave editors working
with video footage the same flexibility that physical film editing had
always offered.
You have checked your definitions before creating your survey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-linear_editing_system#History
_______________________________________________
FrameWorks mailing list
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[Ben Winston]

PS... "10 SPEED" and "Teen Vampire Girl from Hell" are the 2 films I made
on here on the KEM Flatbed.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SketchyWinston/videos

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Post by Ben Winston
Hey I'm Ben. I'm 26 years old and am based in Atlanta GA. I'm originally
from San Francisco where I did a lot of film editing on a KEM flatbed. I
have some links to my work below if you are interested. There is a lot to
the process to explain over email but I can try to help the best I can.
Film editing is a blast, especially when youre throwing sound in the mix.
Two tools you need are a grease pencil and a sharpie for the soundtrack.
Grease pencils dont show up well on Mag stock. Basically you will be
marking up your film a lot to make cuts and to sync it up with the sound if
you are doing that.
What I like to to is go through all the footage and cut every shot out and
hang it on the bin you are using with its Mag sound counterpart if you are
using sync sound recorded on set or whatever. If you are using a slate
while shooting, that is where your first sync mark will go when the clap
board claps. I usually mark that with an X on the film and sound and write
the shot number on the sound only because the shot number should be on your
slate on the work print. Then I usually put another sync mark in the middle
of the shot somewhere with an O or dot because the slate will eventually be
cut out and you will loose your sync mark. I also put lines in to
generally mark where the cuts will be just to get an idea of where I'm
gonna cut the shot. The sound will always be cut to overlap the shot before
and after so you can fade them in and out while mixing later on. You should
have 2 sound tracks and every other shot will be on a different track so
the sound can seamlessly fade into one another. It gets tricky and I can go
on forever but thats just the beginning. Theres whole books on the subject
which you should definitely look up.
To me film editing is important because I just love to do it. I love to
physically touch the film and it makes you think more about the cuts you
make before you make em. It feels more like making a real movie to me.
Computer editing to me kinda cheapens the whole experience of film making
although I've been forced to lately because I dont have access to any of
that equipment here in Georgia. One day though I will. Also if you get into
optical printing, That shits a blast too. Thats for special FX like
superimposed titles and transitions and a lot lot more.
When I was doing all this, it was at a college. It took up a ton of space.
KEM flatbeds are huge, the Mag dubber is huge and I had about 50 film boxes
all over the floor. I took up a big part of the lab which used to annoy the
techs but I was the only person using the shit anyway so it didnt matter.
I still only shoot 16mm film and I just recently finished my 1st feature
which I unfortunately had to edit on my computer. The film still came out
pretty good though for the budget and resources I had. Eventually I'd like
to own all my own film editing tools and make independent films for the
rest of my life. Anyway, If you have any more questions, let me know.
Here's my dang youtube page.
https://www.youtube.com/user/SketchyWinston/videos
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i was glad to hear of your interesting topic. I trust *The Man With the
Movie Camera* is included?
Fred Camper
Chicago
Hello everyone,
Thanks for your feedback. It has been very helpful! I stand corrected. I
somewhat thoughtlessly rushed into sending out the survey without checking
definitions, as what I meant to find out about is about people editing film
in a physical non-computerised way, not video tape, just photochemical film
in any format.
I’d be interested to know how this discussion list would think this would
be best described. I think it is better to leave the linear out of it and
just term it as ‘editing photochemical film’?
Just to add that I am in the final year of a practice as research PhD
investigating historical relationships between filmmaking and textile
practice, testing through performance the hypothesis that film can be
compared to fabric and editing to stitching. I will submit a performance
and a written thesis so the survey will be help with the literature and
practice review, as I’m interested to know about artists who continue to
edit film physically, what their process is and ideas about why they do it.
All best,
Mary
I remember doing sound mixing with 4 U-matic machines, running them all
together until they drifted out of sync while mixing audio. I also editing
running 2 U-matics together and punching in on the record machine when I
wanted the cut to happen. What a difference now. Mind you, film editing
was not hard and puts you in a much better headspace than computer editing.
Christopher

Post by Colinet André
Hello,
of course you are right with this approach.
I’m talking about another definition of “non-linear” which is also
correct.
Anyhow I made a lot of linear analogue video editing and every time you
had to copy to start a new version until the quality was so bad you had to
go back to the originals with the timecodes.
Verzonden vanuit Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
voor Windows 10
*Verzonden: *vrijdag 30 november 2018 2:04
*Aan: *Experimental Film Discussion List
*Onderwerp: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing
Hi,
I learned in film school during the transition period that what Dave says is correct
Editing with celluloid is non-linear; early video editing was linear due
to the assembly reason that Dave describes; non-linear digital editing was
a return to the non-linear editing of celluloid.
We could have a poll though.
Best,
Adam
*Reply-To: *"Experimental Film Discussion List <
*Date: *Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 4:44 PM
*Subject: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing
*I don’t agree with Dave.*
*Linear editing means physical linear structuring of film or video
footage.*
*Non linear editing means virtual editing of footage because it’s only a
editing list with software.*
*All the best !!*
*Colinet André*
Verzonden vanuit Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
voor Windows 10
*Verzonden: *donderdag 29 november 2018 22:50
*Aan: *Experimental Film Discussion List
*Onderwerp: *Re: [Frameworks] Linear film editing

Post by Mary Stark
I'm interested in 'linear film editing', as in cutting and splicing

film at an edit bench or Steenbeck or however you do it.
That’s not linear editing. Physical film editing is non-linear, which
means you can edit anywhere in the piece you want by winding the reels to
that spot. Linear editing was how editing in VIDEO was performed
pre-computerization. That is, you had to add each shot sequentially from
beginning to to end, in that order, and once you got to, say, shot 5, you
couldn’t go back and trim the cut between 1 and 2 without starting over.
Needless to say, linear editing is a pain in the ass, and anyone who had
ever editied film found it extremely frustrating and limitiing. Thus
non-linear video editing was invented by commercial filmmakers after video
became integrated into feature film produstion via special effects and
‘workprinting’. For example, one of the earliest experimental systems, the
Editdroid, was built by Lucasfilm in the early ‘80s. In fact, before the
term ‘non-linear editing’ came into common use in the 1990s, these systems
were called ‘electronic film editing’, because they gave editors working
with video footage the same flexibility that physical film editing had
always offered.
You have checked your definitions before creating your survey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-linear_editing_system#History
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[Scott Dorsey]

No, Dave is right on.

In the beginning, we had film editing, and film editing was great. You

could put anything anywhere.

Then, we had videotape, and although you could kind of razor-blade quad
tape, most videotape editing was done by dubbing scenes one at a time from
one video machine to another. It was horrible, horrible torture and required
extensive planning and preparation. If you have not encountered videotape
editing, there are a couple youtube videos which begin to show what an
excruciating process it was. It was "linear editing" because the tape was
one long sequence that could not be interrupted... you could assemble a shot
to the end of the tape or you could insert a shot over an existing section of
tape, but the scene that was at 1:30 on the tape was always going to be at
1:30 unless you wiped it and dubbed from the original over someplace else.

Video editing was SO BAD that there were productions that were shot on video,
kinescoped for editing, and then transferred back to video with all of the
conequent loss and annoying artifacts... just to avoid videotape editing.

When video people began to be able to do nonlinear editing, it was a total
revolution for them. Most of them were people who had never experienced
film editing (because videotape editing was so repulsive that nobody EVER
moved from film to videotape work), and so it was a total revelation to them
that they could just cut the sequence and add a scene in here or take the
last three frames of a scene out there.

It was utterly amazing what a revolution it was for the video people. For
film people, online editing was kind of nice and cut down the costs of
workprints and made it easy to do multiple cuts for comparison purposes.
But for video people it was a total, total change to finally be able to
edit the way film people could.
--scott